ENERGY FOCUS, INC/DE
For the period ended Jun 30, 2025. Filed Aug 12, 2025.
View on SEC.govAbout this filing
A company's report for each of its first three quarters. The financial statements are not audited. It shows how the business has moved since the last annual report, and what management says changed.
Jun 30, 2025 · Filed Aug 12, 2025
EFOI$4.04+9.3%Stored close · as of Nov 6, 2026
What changed in Management’s Discussion and Analysis?
Read the current filingPrevious report: 10-Q
Period ended 2025-03-31; filed 2025-05-13.
0001628280-25-024875
Item 2. MANAGEMENT’S DISCUSSION AND ANALYSIS OF FINANCIAL CONDITION AND RESULTS OF OPERATIONSCurrent report: 10-Q
Period ended 2025-06-30; filed 2025-08-12.
0001628280-25-039814
Item 2. MANAGEMENT’S DISCUSSION AND ANALYSIS OF FINANCIAL CONDITION AND RESULTS OF OPERATIONSThe baseline is this issuer’s latest earlier reporting period of the same form that was filed before the current report. A previous 10-Q is a different quarter, not a year-over-year comparison. Amendments are excluded.
Compared 80 previous paragraphs and 95 current paragraphs.
51 unchanged; 25 reworded; 16 added; 4 removed; 0 previous and 3 current paragraphs rearranged.
Tables are not compared: 3 previous and 3 current tables excluded. Dates, whitespace, punctuation and numbering changes are ignored; changes to financial figures remain significant.
A changed paragraph is not evidence that risk increased or decreased. An unchanged paragraph does not establish that risk stayed the same.
Added paragraphs (16)
Current report
Net sales of $1.1 million for the second quarter of 2025 decreased $0.4 million, or 26%, compared to second quarter of 2024 net sales of $1.6 million, driven by a 71% decrease in MMM sales , partially offset by a 118% increase in commercial sales. The net sales decrease of MMM products sales in the second quarter was primarily due to a significant reduction in military demand, driven by ongoing federal budget uncertainties and delays in new defense contract activity. The increase in commercial sales was primarily driven by a high-dollar UPS project delivered to a new customer in Taiwan.
Current report
Net sales of $1.8 million for the first six months of 2025 decreased $0.6 million, or 26%, compared to the same period in 2024, primarily driven by a 56% decrease in MMM sales, partially offset by a 49% increase in commercial sales. The net sales increase for the first six months of 2025 was primarily due to a significant reduction in military demand, driven by ongoing federal budget uncertainties and delays in new defense contract activity.
Current report
Gross profit was $0.3 million, representing 19% of net sales, for the first six months of 2025 compared to $0.2 million, or 10% of net sales, for the first six months of 2024. The year-over-year increase in gross profit was driven mainly by a decrease in fixed costs such as subscription fee and rent expense for production and reduced use of temporary outside labor.
Current report
Selling, general and administrative expenses were $0.7 million for the first six months of 2025, compared to $1.1 million for the first six months of 2024. The decrease is primarily due to reductions in consultant fees of $0.2 million and reduction of $0.1 million in software fees.
Current report
Other Expense (Income)
Current report
Interest expense (income)
Current report
Other income and expenses
Current report
Other expenses were $8 thousand for the second quarter of 2025, compared to other expenses of $1 thousand for the second quarter of 2024. Other expenses were $8 thousand for the six months ended June 30, 2025, compared to other expenses of $2 thousand for the six months ended June 30, 2024. Other expenses are mainly composed of bank and collateral management fees. We recognized a non-cash loss of approximately $8 thousand on the settlement of returning inventory, cancelling prepayments made to the vendor, and settlement of outstanding accounts payables in the second quarter of 2025.
Current report
For the six months ended June 30, 2025, our net loss of $0.5 million decreased 49% from the net loss for the six months ended June 30, 2024 of $1.0 million. The decrease is primarily due to a decrease in lower fixed costs in the first six months of 2025 compared to the first six months of 2024.
Current report
•As of June 30, 2025, we held total cash and cash equivalents of $0.5 million, of which approximately $85 thousand was maintained in a bank account in Taiwan. These funds support the operations of our wholly owned Taiwanese subsidiary and are denominated in NTD.
Current report
•The ability to access this cash for general corporate purposes in the United States may be subject to foreign exchange controls, local banking regulations, or unfavorable tax consequences. While there are currently no formal restrictions on the transfer of funds from Taiwan to the United States, repatriation of these funds may result in foreign withholding taxes or other costs, which could impact our overall liquidity. As such, our ability to deploy foreign cash for domestic use may be limited or delayed.
Current report
•Management believes our current cash position and operating cash flows are sufficient to meet near-term working capital needs in both domestic and foreign jurisdictions.
Current report
Foreign Currency Exchange Risk
Current report
Because we maintain operations and cash balances in Taiwan, we are exposed to fluctuations in the New Taiwan dollar (NTD) exchange rate relative to the U.S. dollar. Changes in exchange rates can affect the reported value of our foreign cash balances, revenues, and expenses, as well as result in transaction gains or losses on intercompany and third-party balances.
Current report
Our business operations in Taiwan expose us to foreign currency risk from fluctuations in the New Taiwan dollars (NTD) exchange rate relative to the U.S. dollar. As of June 30, 2025, we had a net NTD exposure of approximately $573 thousand, consisting primarily of NTD-denominated accounts receivable of $604 thousand, partially offset by NTD cash of $85 thousand and accounts payable of $116 thousand.
Current report
For the six months ended June 30, 2025, we recognized a net foreign currency transaction gain of approximately $45 thousand. We do not currently employ financial instruments to hedge our foreign currency exposure. We continue to monitor our NTD exposure and may consider hedging strategies in the future if our foreign currency risk increases materially.
Removed paragraphs (4)
Previous report
The Company has continued to make significant cost cutting efforts to address operational expenses while maintaining customer satisfaction and delivering goods on-time. Investments into the Company have contributed to the ability of the Company to continue to not only provide quality products and services, but to both expand and rationalize product offerings.
Previous report
Net sales of $0.6 million for the first quarter of 2025 decreased $0.2 million, or 26%, compared to first quarter of 2024 net sales of $0.8 million, driven by a decrease of $0.1 million in MMM sales and $0.1 million in commercial sales. The decrease in net MMM sales in the first quarter of 2025 compared to the same period in 2024 is primarily due to a significant reduction in military demand, driven by the impact of the U.S. election cycle. Net sales of our commercial products decreased by $0.1 million, or 32% in the first quarter of 2025 due to the effects of high inflation, which reduced the proportion of commercial sales, along with market-adjusted pricing.
Previous report
Interest expense
Previous report
Other expenses
Reworded paragraphs (25)
Previous wording
Energy Focus, Inc. engages primarily in the design, development, manufacturing, marketing and sale of energy-efficient lighting systems and controls. We develop, market and sell high quality light-emitting diode (“LED”) lighting and controls products in the commercial market and military maritime market (“MMM”). Our mission is to enable our customers to run their facilities with greater energy efficiency, productivity, and human health and wellness through advanced LED retrofit solutions. Our goal is to be a market leader for the most demanding applications where performance, quality, value, environmental impact and health are considered paramount. We specialize in energy efficient LED lighting retrofit product, replacing fluorescent, high-intensity discharge lighting and other types of lamps in institutional buildings for primarily indoor lighting applications with our innovative, high-quality commercial and military-grade tubular LED (“TLED”) products, as well as other LED and lighting control products for commercial and consumer applications. We are also evaluating adjacent technologies, including Gallium Nitride (“GaN”) based power supplies and additional market opportunities for energy solution products that support sustainability in our existing channels.
Current wording
Our mission is to enable our customers to run their facilities with greater energy efficiency, productivity, and human health and wellness through advanced LED retrofit solutions. Our goal is to be a market leader for the most demanding applications where performance, quality, value, environmental impact and health are considered paramount. We specialize in energy efficient LED lighting retrofit product, replacing fluorescent, high-intensity discharge lighting and other types of lamps in institutional buildings for primarily indoor lighting applications with our innovative, high-quality commercial and military-grade tubular LED (“TLED”) products, as well as other LED and lighting control products for commercial and consumer applications. In addition to our lighting products, we also offer UPS systems and other power management solutions. We are also evaluating additional adjacent technologies, including Gallium Nitride (“GaN”) based power supplies and other energy solution products that support sustainability in our existing channels.
Previous wording
In addition to continuously pursuing cost reductions, our strategy to combat these trends is to innovate both our technology and product offerings with differentiated products and solutions that offer greater, distinct value. Specific examples of these products we have developed include the RedCap®, our patented emergency backup battery integrated TLED, as well as our robust MMM product offering. The Company has enhanced the performance of our RedCap® product providing a more user- friendly experience. We continue to evaluate our sales strategy and believe our go-to-market strategy that focuses more on direct-sales marketing, selectively expanding our channel partner network to cover territories across the country, and listening to the voice of the customer will lead to better and more impactful product development efforts that we believe will eventually translate into larger addressable markets and greater sales growth for us.
Current wording
In addition to continuously pursuing cost reductions, our strategy to combat these trends is to innovate both our technology and product offerings with differentiated products and solutions that offer greater, distinct value. Specific examples of these products we have developed include the RedCap®, our patented emergency backup battery integrated TLED, as well as our robust MMM product offering. The Company has enhanced the performance of our RedCap® product providing a more user- friendly experience. We continue to evaluate our sales strategy and believe our go-to-market strategy that focuses more on direct-sales marketing, selectively expanding our channel partner network to cover territories across the country, and listening to the voice of the customer will lead to better and more impactful product development efforts that we believe will eventually translate into larger addressable markets and greater sales growth.
Previous wording
We have taken steps to strengthen our financial structure through capital increases and cost reduction measures. As a result, we have fully eliminated all external high-interest debt, which we believe has improved our financial position. Our business expansion plans are supported by financial strategies that we expect will provide funding for our planned growth initiatives, although there can be no assurance that such funding will be adequate. During 2024, our MMM business faced ongoing challenges due to delays in government funding and the timing of U.S. Navy awards. Several anticipated projects encountered repeated postponements, further complicated by the long sales cycles typical in this sector. The timeline from bid submission to order placement often exceeds six months, and many MMM products are built-to-order, resulting in extended lead times before revenue recognition. To mitigate this volatility, we continue to actively pursue new opportunities with the U.S. Navy and other government sectors. We have undertaken efforts to reduce costs and improve production efficiencies in MMM product lines which we believe have contributed to our competitiveness, and may have helped us secure new contracts and expand our sales pipeline in the first half of 2025.
Current wording
We have taken steps to strengthen our financial structure through capital increases and cost reduction measures. As a result, we have fully eliminated all external high-interest debt, which we believe has improved our financial position. Our business expansion plans are supported by financial strategies that we expect will provide funding for our planned growth initiatives, although there can be no assurance that such funding will be adequate. During 2024, our MMM business faced ongoing challenges due to delays in government funding and the timing of U.S. Navy awards. Several anticipated projects encountered repeated postponements, further complicated by the long sales cycles typical in this sector. The timeline from bid submission to order placement often exceeds six months, and many MMM products are build-to-order, resulting in extended lead times before revenue recognition. To mitigate this volatility, we continue to actively pursue new opportunities with the U.S. Navy and other government sectors. We have undertaken efforts to reduce costs, which we believe have contributed to our competitiveness, and may have helped us secure new contracts and expand our sales pipeline in the first half of 2025.
Previous wording
We intend to focus on developing our commercial product offerings, including planned new product lines such as Energy Storage Systems (ESS), GaN Power Supplies, and UPS systems for data centers, while continuing to leverage the stability and opportunities within our MMM business. In 2024, we conducted a comprehensive review of our commercial pricing strategy and reassessed key partnerships within the energy related market. These strategic adjustments have improved our market position, offering a more competitive pricing structure and a stronger value proposition for our customers. We believe that these initiatives, if successfully implemented, and if our financial position continues to improve, may contribute to growth across both our MMM and commercial business sectors, although there can be no assurance that such growth will occur.
Current wording
We are actively expanding our commercial product offerings, including our newly introduced UPS systems for data centers. We also continue to develop the development of additional product lines such as Energy Storage Systems (“ESS”) and GaN based power supplies, while leveraging the stability and opportunities within our MMM business. In 2024, we conducted a comprehensive review of our commercial pricing strategy and reassessed key partnerships within the energy-related market. These strategic adjustments have improved our market position, offering a more competitive pricing structure and a stronger value proposition for our customers. We believe that these initiatives, if successfully implemented, and if our financial position continues to improve, may contribute to growth across both our MMM and commercial business sectors, although there can be no assurance that such growth will occur.
Previous wording
Despite continuing progress on cost reduction throughout 2024 and 2025, the Company’s results reflect the challenges due to long and unpredictable sales cycles, unexpected delays in MMM and commercial customer retrofit budgets and project starts, and supply chain issues. There has also been continuing aggressive price competition in the lighting industry. We continue to incur losses and we have a substantial accumulated deficit, which continues to raise substantial doubt about our ability to continue as a going concern at March 31, 2025.
Current wording
Despite continuing progress on cost reduction throughout 2024 and 2025, the Company’s results reflect the challenges due to long and unpredictable sales cycles, unexpected delays in MMM and commercial customer retrofit budgets and project starts, and supply chain issues. There has also been continuing aggressive price competition in the lighting industry. We continue to incur losses and have a substantial accumulated deficit, which continues to raise substantial doubt about our ability to continue as a going concern at June 30, 2025.
Previous wording
Under the premise of a similar industrial environment and familiar relationships, our professional skills complement those of our supply chain partners. We believe this foundation of cooperation may enable us to pursue common goals of cost reduction, profit sharing, and exploring new business opportunities. This not only strengthens our cooperative relationship but also lays a solid foundation for our joint efforts towards a better future.
Current wording
Under the premise of a similar industrial environment and familiar relationships, our professional skills complement those of our supply chain partners. This foundation of cooperation enables us to more easily achieve common goals of cost reduction, profit sharing, and exploring new business opportunities. This not only strengthens our cooperative relationship but also lays a solid foundation for our joint efforts towards a better future.
Previous wording
Gross profit margin was $0.2 million, or 32% of net sales, for the first quarter of 2025. This compares with gross margin of $0.1 million, or 14% of net sales, in the first quarter of 2024. The quarter-over-quarter increase in gross margin was primarily driven by a 24% of net sales decrease in fixed costs such as subscription fee and expenses related to rent expense for production.
Current wording
Gross profit was $0.1 million, representing 13% of net sales, for the second quarter of 2025. This compares with gross profit of $0.1 million, or 8% of net sales, in the second quarter of 2024. The period-over-period increase in gross profit was driven mainly by a decrease in fixed costs, such as rent expense for production and reduced use of temporary outside labor.
Previous wording
Product development expenses were $0.1 million for the first quarter of 2025, down 61% from the first quarter of 2024. The $0.1 million decrease primarily resulted from lower payroll-related expenses due to reduction in the headcount and product testing fees. During 2024, the Company terminated several employees, and the result was a significant reduction in payroll-related expenses for the first quarter of 2025.
Current wording
Product development expenses were $0.1 million for the second quarter of 2025, down 47% from the second quarter of 2024. The $0.1 million decrease is primarily resulted from lower payroll-related expenses due to reduction in the headcount and product testing fees.
Previous wording
Selling, general and administrative expenses were $0.4 million for the first quarter of 2025, down 30% as compared to $0.6 million in the first quarter of 2024. The decrease is primarily due to a reduction in consultants fees of $0.2 million.
Current wording
Selling, general and administrative expenses were $0.3 million for the second quarter of 2025, down 45% from $0.5 million in the second quarter of 2024. The decrease is primarily due to a reduction in insurance fees of $0.1 million.
Previous wording
There was no interest expense for the first quarter of 2025, compared to interest expense of $5 thousand for the first quarter of 2024. The decrease is primarily related to early termination of the 2022 Streeterville Note in 2024.
Current wording
There was no interest expense for the first six months of 2025, compared to interest expense of $5 thousand for the first six months of 2024. The decrease is primarily related to the early termination of the 2022 Streeterville Note. There was no actual cash interest paid for the six months ended June 30, 2025 compared to $5 thousand in the first six months of 2024.
Previous wording
We recognized $187 thousand of gain on debt extinguishment for the first quarter of 2024, which was related to the early termination of the 2022 Streeterville Note. There was no such gain recognized for the first quarter of 2025.
Current wording
We recognized a $187 thousand gain on debt extinguishment for the first quarter of 2024, which was related to the early termination of the 2022 Streeterville Note. There was no such gain recognized for the first six months of 2025.
Previous wording
Other expenses was less than a thousand for the first quarter of 2025, compared to other expenses of $1 thousand for the first quarter of 2024. Other expenses are mainly comprised of bank and collateral management fees.
Current wording
Other income was less than a thousand for the second quarter and first six months of 2025, compared to other income of $4 thousand for the second quarter and the first six months of 2024. Such other income is related to tax refunds.
Previous wording
Due to the operating losses incurred during the three months ended March 31, 2025 and 2024, and after application of the annual limitation set forth under Section 382 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended, it was not necessary to record a provision for U.S. federal income tax or various state income taxes as income tax benefits are fully offset by a valuation allowance recorded.
Current wording
Due to the operating losses incurred during the three and six months ended June 30, 2025 and 2024, and after application of the annual limitation set forth under Section 382 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended, it was not necessary to record a provision for U.S. federal income tax or various state income taxes as income tax benefits are fully offset by a valuation allowance recorded.
Previous wording
For the three months ended March 31, 2025, our net loss of $0.3 million decreased 36% over the net loss for the three months ended March 31, 2024 of $0.4 million. The decrease is mainly due to lower fixed costs in the first quarter of 2025.
Current wording
For the three months ended June 30, 2025, our net loss of $0.2 million decreased 58% from the net loss for the three months ended June 30, 2024 of $0.6 million. The decrease is primarily due to lower fixed costs in the second quarter of 2025 compared to the second quarter of 2024.
Previous wording
At March 31, 2025, we had $0.5 million in cash and no outstanding debt. We have historically incurred substantial losses, and as of March 31, 2025, we had an accumulated deficit of $155.2 million. Additionally, our sales have been concentrated among a few major customers and for the three months ended March 31, 2025, three customers accounted for approximately 70% of net sales.
Current wording
As of June 30, 2025, we had $0.5 million in cash and no outstanding debt. We have historically incurred substantial losses, and as of June 30, 2025, we had an accumulated deficit of $155.4 million. Additionally, our sales have been concentrated among a few major customers and for the six months ended June 30, 2025, with four customers accounting for approximately 76% of net sales.
Previous wording
In 2025 and 2024, we recommitted to building upon the transformation activities started during 2019 that sought to stabilize and regrow our business. These efforts include the following key developments that occurred during 2025 and 2024:
Current wording
In 2025 and 2024, we remain committed to building upon the transformation activities started during 2019 that sought to stabilize and regrow our business. These efforts include the following key developments that occurred during 2025 and 2024:
Previous wording
•We aggressively re-evaluated operating expenses and reduced its workforce significantly throughout 2024 into 2025 to manage fixed costs.
Current wording
•We re-evaluated operating expenses and reduced its workforce significantly throughout 2024 into 2025 to manage fixed costs.
Previous wording
We will seek to remain agile as an organization to respond to potential or continuing weakness in the macroeconomic environment and in the meantime seek to expand sales channels and enter new markets that we believe will provide additional growth opportunities. We plan to achieve profitability through developing and launching new, innovative products, our Redcap® emergency battery backup tubular TLEDs, evaluating new growth opportunities such as GaN-based power supply circuitry and other energy solution products, as well as executing on our multi-channel sales strategy that targets key verticals, such as government, healthcare, education and commercial and industrial, complemented by our marketing outreach campaigns and expanding channel partnerships. In addition, we intend to continue to apply rigorous financial discipline in our organizational structure, decision-making, business processes and policies, strategic sourcing activities and supply chain practices to help accelerate our path towards profitability.
Current wording
We will seek to remain agile as an organization to respond to potential or continuing weakness in the macroeconomic environment and in the meantime seek to expand sales channels and enter new markets that we believe will provide additional growth opportunities. We plan to achieve profitability through developing and launching new, innovative products, UPS systems, our Redcap® emergency battery backup tubular TLEDs, evaluating new growth opportunities such as GaN-based power supply circuitry and other energy solution products, as well as executing on our multi-channel sales strategy that targets key verticals, such as government, healthcare, education and commercial and industrial, complemented by our marketing outreach campaigns and expanding channel partnerships. In addition, we intend to continue to apply rigorous financial discipline in our organizational structure, decision-making, business processes and policies, strategic sourcing activities and supply chain practices to help accelerate our path towards profitability.
Previous wording
At March 31, 2025, our cash balance was $0.5 million, compared to $0.6 million at December 31, 2024.
Current wording
As of June 30, 2025, our cash balance was approximately $0.5 million, compared to approximately $0.6 million as of December 31, 2024.
Previous wording
Net cash used in operating activities was $0.3 million for the three months ended March 31, 2025. The net loss for the three months ended March 31, 2025 was $0.3 million and was adjusted for non-cash items, including depreciation and amortization, stock-based compensation, provisions for inventory, warranty, accounts receivable reserves and working capital changes. During the three months ended March 31, 2025, we generated $0.2 million in cash through collection of accounts receivable which was offset by $0.2 million in cash due to changes in prepayment for vendors. We used $0.1 million from accounts payable due to timing of inventory receipts and payments.
Current wording
Net cash used in operating activities was $0.5 million for the six months ended June 30, 2025. The net loss for the six months ended June 30, 2025 was $0.5 million and was adjusted for non-cash items, including depreciation and amortization, stock-based compensation, provisions for inventory, warranty, and accounts receivable reserves and working capital changes. During the six months ended June 30, 2025, major adjustments included a $0.2 million change in accounts receivable caused by specific timing of collecting accounts receivable and a $0.1 million change in accounts payable.
Previous wording
Net cash used in operating activities was $0.1 million for the three months ended March 31, 2024. The net loss for the three months ended March 31, 2024 was $0.4 million and was adjusted for non-cash items, including depreciation and amortization, stock-based compensation, provisions for inventory, warranty, accounts receivable reserves and working capital changes. During the three months ended March 31, 2024, we generated $1.4 million in cash through collection of accounts receivable and $0.1 million due to changes in prepayment for vendors. We used $0.1 million and $0.8 million from accounts payable and accounts payable to related party, respectively due to timing of inventory receipts and payments.
Current wording
Net cash used in operating activities was $0.8 million for the six months ended June 30, 2024. The net loss for the six months ended June 30, 2024 was $1.0 million and was adjusted for non-cash items, including depreciation and amortization, stock-based compensation, provisions for inventory, warranty, and accounts receivable reserves and working capital changes. During the six months ended June 30, 2024, major adjustments included cash generated from $1.2 million from collection of accounts receivable, and $0.4 million from inventory and $0.1 million from accounts payable, which is offset by a $1.4 million change in related party accounts payable due to timing of inventory receipts and payments.
Previous wording
Net cash used in investing activities was $5 thousand for the three months ended March 31, 2025, primarily from the acquisition of property and equipment.
Current wording
Net cash used in investing activities was $5 thousand for the six months ended June 30, 2025, primarily from the acquisition of property and equipment.
Previous wording
For the three months ended March 31, 2024, the Company did not have any activities in connection with investing activities.
Current wording
The Company did not engage in any investing activities for the six months ended June 30, 2024.
Previous wording
Net cash provided by financing activities was $0.2 million for the three months ended March 31, 2025, related to proceeds from the private placement of common stock.
Current wording
Net cash provided by financing activities was $0.4 million during the six months ended June 30, 2025, related to proceeds from the private placements of common stock.
Previous wording
Net cash used in financing activities was $1.0 million for the three months ended March 31, 2024, related to net payments on the 2022 Streeterville Note.
Current wording
Net cash used in financing activities was $0.1 million during the six months ended June 30, 2024, primarily related to $0.9 million of net proceeds from the issuance of common stock, offset by $1.0 million related to net payments of the 2022 Streeterville Note.
Rearranged current paragraphs (3)
Current report — wording carried from elsewhere
Energy Focus, Inc. engages primarily in the design, development, manufacturing, marketing and sale of energy-efficient lighting systems and controls. We develop, market and sell high quality light-emitting diode (“LED”) lighting and controls products in the commercial market and military maritime market (“MMM”). In addition to our lighting portfolio, we also offer uninterruptible power supply (“UPS”) systems and other power management solutions, which have contributed meaningfully to our revenue in recent quarters and are expected to be a strategic area of continued growth.
Current report — wording carried from elsewhere
Product development expenses were $0.1 million for the first six months of 2025, a $0.1 million decrease compared to $0.3 million for the first six months of 2024. The decrease primarily resulted from lower payroll-related expenses due to reduction in headcount and product testing fees.
Current report — wording carried from elsewhere
There was no interest expense for the second quarter of 2025 and 2024.